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Bright (6.8U) possible nova in Del?

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FRF
FRF's picture
Bright (6.8U) possible nova in Del?

Patrick Schmeer alerted us via several lists and facebook groups that K. Itagaki discovcered a bright possible nova in Delphinus:

PNV J20233073+2046041

PNV J20233073+2046041 2013 08 14.5843* 20 23 30.73 +20 46 04.1 6.8 U

more info: http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/unconf/followups/J20233073+2046041.html

FRF
FRF's picture
Discovered by Koichi Itagaki,

Discovered by Koichi Itagaki, Yamagata, Japan, using 0.18-m reflector + unfiltered CCD. This Nova was confirmed on the frames taken on August 14.750 UT using 0.60-m f/5.7 reflector + unfiltered CCD after discovery. Then CCD magnitude is 6.3. Also nothing is visible at this location on his past frames (limiting mag.= 13.0) taken on 2013 August 13.565 UT.

FRF
FRF's picture
Itagaki's image :
hhu
hhu's picture
Just visualy observed it and

Just visualy observed it and estimated it 6.5.  AAVSO chart 12506UL 

Compstars 62 and 70.

Easy visible in 8x42 bino.

clz
clz's picture
Nova del

Hi all,

i am making pictures of this star now in BVR

Laurent

Bikeman
Bikeman's picture
Hi all I hope I got the

Hi all

I hope I got the right thing ....

bjs
Bino Chart created with VSP

For those who'd like to just grab it quickly and not create another one.

Jim

mmx
mmx's picture
Nova

Great, will get right on this as son as dark here,

Its still brightening it appears!

Mario

Bikeman
Bikeman's picture
Prelim. estimate from my

Prelim. estimate from my images now is 6.2 +-0.1mag, so not that much brighter than the 6.3 mag reported in the confirmation (see link in thread starter) for August 14.750 UT. Looks like clouds are closing in on me now :-( Good luck everyone CS HB

Gustav Holmberg
My visual estimate: 6.0 at

My visual estimate: 6.0 at 00:50 UT 15 August using AAVSO chart 12506SZ.

/Gustav, HGUA

AAX
AAX's picture
m(vis) = 6.1

My visual estimate is 6.1 using comps from BSC (59 and 63).
An image is available at this: http://www.geocities.ws/costeira1/img/ndel2013_20130815_0005.jpg

HQA
HQA's picture
Nova Del 2013

Here is one of the V-band BSM_Berry images of the nova.

Arne

avdhoeven
avdhoeven's picture
V-band magnitudes

Here are my first photometric V-band estimates under not so good sky conditions. A rise in magnitude can be seen...

FRF
FRF's picture
6.3 vis tonight

Visual magnitude estimate  2013 Aug 15.025 UT 6.3.
Instrument: 20x60 binoculars

Robert Little
Nova Delphinus

This will be my first officlal report, so no gurantees, but I'd put it at 6.1 or so, based upon comparison to nearby stars.

Good to be on board.

-RRL

bjs
Newcastle Observatory via Twitter

Newcastle Observatory via Twitter reported Nova PNV J20233073+2046041 in Delphinus now at Bmag 6.117 +/-0.014, and Vmag 5.920 +/- 0.004

cpmalo87
cpmalo87's picture
I just made a visual estimate

I just made a visual estimate @ 6.0 with 10x50 binoculars. 

BRJ
BRJ's picture
Nova Del is apparently still

Nova Del is apparently still rising, judging by earlier reported mags and my two observations of this evening.

Aug. 15.0576  5.9

Aug. 15.1431  5.7

J.Bortle    (BRJ)

 

WGEinWVA
WGEinWVA's picture
At 0500UT, it seemed clearly

At 0500UT, it seemed clearly brighter than the 5.7 comp star the plotter is showing next to it.  I put it at 5.4.  35mm binoculars.  Glen

jrsquid3
jrsquid3's picture
nyc obs..

saw it in NYC.  Agree with the ~6.0 visual at 1:35 EST.   very clear night...

hhu
hhu's picture
The nova appears brighter

The nova appears brighter than the brightest compstar on the AAVSO chart.

 

I think it's urgent to put some brighter compstars on the chart.

cpmalo87
cpmalo87's picture
Brighter comps

This 20 degree chart, 12508ANJ, has plenty of brighter comps.

hhu
hhu's picture
Thanks.

Thanks.

bjs
AUID

Observations may be entered under AUID 000-BLC-933.

hhu
hhu's picture
And what about those who are

And what about those who are entered under PNV J20233073+2046041?

bjs
000-BLC-933 = PNV J20233073+2046041

They are linked under that AUID.  It's just easier to type. :-)

CNY
CNY's picture
Science fom Nova Del 2013

I was wondering about dstance and possible peak magnitude we could expect from this. I found a distance estimate of 1 Kpc here:http://www.astronomerstelegram.org/?read=5283

Should we expect this to reach N Sco 2007 brightness? (3.9)

Or is N 1975 Cyg brightness in the realm of possibility? Too early to tell?

According to this  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V1500_Cygni; Nova Cyg 1975 was twice as far away (If the above 1Kpc estmate is reasonable.

Does anyone know what kind of nova we have? (Fast , Slow, He, Fe)?

If so how do you know?

-----Andy

jeno
jeno's picture
Distance not yet known

 

Hi Andy.  Thanks so much for your thoughtful questions.

 

Actually, the authors of ATel 5283 did not quote a distance -- they

just used a fairly arbitrary distance-scaling of 1 kpc to report an

X-ray luminosity (as is often done).

 

The E-Nova collaboration has triggered radio observations, and once

these are performed, they will provide a good first distance estimate.

This is because the radio flux density is proportional to the size of the

ejecta, modulo the distance, and we know the size of the ejecta from

published velocities muliplied by the time since the start of the

eruption.

 

Once we have a good distance estimate, we will be able to have a

better sense of how bright this nova might get (assuming that it has

not already started to fade by then!).

 

All the best, from Chalkidiki, Greece,

 

Jeno

David Benn
David Benn's picture
On August 16, jeno mentioned

On August 16, jeno mentioned that:

The E-Nova collaboration has triggered radio observations, and once these are performed, they will provide a good first distance estimate. This is because the radio flux density is proportional to the size of the ejecta, modulo the distance, and we know the size of the ejecta from published velocities muliplied by the time since the start of the eruption.

Is there a distance result from this approach yet?

David

 

Bikeman
Bikeman's picture
ATEL 5298

Hi!

There is ATel#5298 from the following day with a limit on distance > 2kpc , with Jeno Sokoloski in the author list, so maybe that is related:

http://www.astronomerstelegram.org/?read=5298

Cheers

HB

 

 

jeno
jeno's picture
Distance to V339 Del

Hi David, and Bikeman.

In asking about the distance to V339 Del that one infers from radio observations, you raise a delicate issue.  You might notice that in ATel #5382, we report on the radio detection of V339 Del, but we do not say anything about a distance.  That is because something strange is going on.  The radio flux is quite low, suggesting that either: 1) the distance is surprisingly large for such a bright nova; 2) that there was a delay between the thermonuclear runaway that triggered the nova and the expulsion of material from the system; or 3) that the ejecta were initially too cold to produce radio emission.  We are waiting for additional data (at all wavelengths) to try to determine which of these options is correct. 

From optical spectroscopy, Steve Shore and collaborators suggest that the distance is 6 kpc (ATel #5409).

Cheers,

Jeno

Bikeman
Bikeman's picture
At 6kpc distance, this would

At 6kpc distance, this would place it quite a bit away from the galactic disk plane (about 1kpc?), or am I getting this wrong? 

Cheers

HB

David Benn
David Benn's picture
Pre-nova magnitude

Fascinating re:  ATel #5382.

Another question I have is: where did the mag 16.9 minimum recorded on VSX come from? There was discussion earlier in this thread about pre-nova mags being captured on Perseid meteor images, for example. Was this 16.9 value taken from something like this or a previous "survey" plate or DSS or ...?

David

David Benn
David Benn's picture
Please ignore my question

Please ignore my question about the 16.9 minimum magnitude.

Sara and Sebastian set me straight. I should have re-checked Sebastian's remark section on the V0339 Del VSX entry before asking.

It's a V magnitude from GSC2.3 with position from CMC14. This cone search result appears to be it.

David

Piotr Guzik
Do not know the answers to

Do not know the answers to your questions, but a few minutes ago I made it at 5.0 mag in my 10x50 binoculars and saw it easily with naked eye.

Gustav Holmberg
5.1 using 6x30 at 20:41 UT,

5.1 using 6x30 at 20:41 UT, 15 August.

/Gustav

hhu
hhu's picture
I also have seen it with the

I also have seen it with the naked eye.  Visual estimation was done by 8x42 bino.  Magnitude 5.1   2013/08/15  at 20.45 UT.

CNY
CNY's picture
N Del 2013

This is already a big deal, and may even be a bigger deal.

Playing with this Magnitude calculator and plugging in numbers: http://www.1728.org/magntudj.htm

Using 1Kpc = 3200 LY as from http://www.astronomerstelegram.org/?read=5283

From wikipedia and cited paper----Common peak Absolute mags for classical novae are what they call bimodal. Most are -7.5M and a second common brightness is -8.8

Robert, Gilmozzi; Della Valle, Massimo (2003). "Novae as Distance Indicators". In Alloin, D.; Gieren, W. Stellar Candles for the Extragalactic Distance Scale. Springer. pp. 229–241. ISBN 3-540-20128-9

Using the above Absolute mag calculator, I get 2.5V peak for the -7.5group and a whopping 1.2V! for the -8.8 group! (Extinction not accounted for)

This sort of rare thing , seems unlikely to me. The principal of Occum's Razor would suggest that this may too optimistic. I make some assumptions. Info coming out is only as good as data going in.

Any toughts?

jeno
jeno's picture
N Del 2013

Hi again, Andy.  It looks like you are finding all the right references and doing all the right calculations!

Now, we just need to get a good distance and extinction... :)

- Jeno

Roger Pieri
N Del 2013

 

I just got it at V  4.727 (0.005) on 16/8 1:00 UT, starting at 4.900 on 15/8 22:47 UT. It steadily brightens, no slope decrease in view ! 

Clear Skies !

Roger

BRJ
BRJ's picture
An interesting nova and the

An interesting nova and the first in a long time that I recall seeing distinctly with the unaided eye. I concur with others that the nova continues to slowly brighten. I obtained 4.8 with the unaided eye using multiple comp stars on August 16.0743UT, a full magnitude above what I got last evening. The nova's slow, but steadily continuing  increase in brightness hints at a "relatively slow" nova to me and I will be extremely interested to see more pre-discovery magnitudes come to light.

J.Bortle   (BRJ)

GKI
GKI's picture
Still rising visually

Well skies have cleared now here in Ireland, I've just taken a look at it with my 15x70mm binos, visually I now estimate this nova at magnitude 4.8, I can easily see it with the naked eye under excellent clear skies.

I hope that you are right and this gets even brighter !

Keith..

FMT
FMT's picture
Heres's a spectrum of this

Heres's a spectrum of this nova

ARAS Spectra are gathered on web page : http://www.astrosurf.com/aras/Aras_DataBase/Novae/Nova-Del-2013.htm

Dr. Bob Stencel
Dr. Bob Stencel's picture
Nova Del 2013 near 4.5 visually

Observing through hazy skies in Denver, Nova Del appears brighter than nearby 4.8 mag star, 29 Vul.

Nova has orange appearance (H-alpha) and may appear slightly brighter (Purkinje effect).  Observation at 2145MDT 15-Aug-2013 = JD 2456520.6645.  SVR.

bjs
Nova Del 13 still rising

4.6 and easily visible naked eye in urban Honolulu.  How high will it go?

lmk
lmk's picture
Still rising

Mag 4.4  at 0820 UT using binoculars, though can be seen naked eye as well.

daveh
daveh's picture
N Del 2013

Imaged last evening with iTelescope T18 in V for 90 seconds.

V = 6.243, with error = 0.001, airmass = 1.0782. Check star=98, Comp star = 100.  All data from VPHOT.

Tried to get a nice color image this morning but everything was down...I'll try again later.

Also will try to image over the next several days/weeks to see what happens.

BRJ
BRJ's picture
What has surprised me greatly

What has surprised me greatly regarding this nova is the lack, at least so far, of almost any pre-discovery observations. We have just gone through the peak of the Perseid meteor shower occurring during a virtually moonless period. One would usually anticipate that large numbers of amateurs would have been out taking wide-field images of the sky in hopes of capturing meteors. Cetainly, many would have covered this region of the sky. Yet, all we seem to have are two strongly conflicting datapoints pre-discovery so far. And where are the reports from those known to be carrying out amateur nova photo patrol programs this time?

I do appreciate that it is still early, but past such events generally have quickly produced a number of early sightings. Cetainly, the nova's observed behavior so far could suggest that its rise in brightness in the days just prior to discovery may not have been as abrupt and steep as might have first been assumed. Perhaps over the coming weekend, as folks have an opportunity to go over their Perseid images more, some new information will surface?

In the meantime, I think we may be in for quite a show from Nova Del.

J.Bortle   (BRJ)

  

BOS
BOS's picture
Re: What has surprised me greatly

Hi John,

Frans Van Loo (VNL), Genk, Belgium, has captured the field on Aug. 13th at 23h05m 25 s UT using a Nikon D3100 DSLR + 18-55mm zoom lens at 18-mm-f.l. in the course of the Perseid observations.

His image shows the nova slightly brighter than the image background. Although a decent measure is impossible, the brightness estimated from this image is about magnitude 8. The 8th magnitude star just NW of the nova is also visible. Frans did report his observation to the AAVSO and is shown in the LCG, but is indeed conflicting with the ~5.2 observation which is also shown.

Another image captured by Guiseppe Cannonaco, Genk, Belgium, has been taken on Aug. 13th, at 20h41m53s does not show the nova. The limiting magnitude of the image is however about magnitude 7.5.

I am wondering whether the ~5.2 magnitude datapoint shown in the LCG has a typo in the date or magnitude.

We are also eagerly looking forward to more pre-discovery images. Indeed, one could expect that other observers of the Perseid meteor shower have captured the area.

 

Best Regards,

Eric Broens (BOS)

libmar96
Pre-discovery observations of Nova

[quote=BRJ]What has surprised me greatly regarding this nova is the lack, at least so far, of almost any pre-discovery observations. We have just gone through the peak of the Perseid meteor shower occurring during a virtually moonless period. One would usually anticipate that large numbers of amateurs would have been out taking wide-field images of the sky in hopes of capturing meteors. Cetainly, many would have covered this region of the sky. Yet, all we seem to have are two strongly conflicting datapoints pre-discovery so far. And where are the reports from those known to be carrying out amateur nova photo patrol programs this time?[/quote]

Hello,

I've taken some pictures from 13/14 August taken at 21:20 (GMT) and I couldn't find this Nova. It was fainter than 10.2 mag. at that time and I added this observation to AAVSO database.

I've found some more pictures (where Nova's position was close the edge of photo) taken 10 minutes later and Nova was fainter than 10.6 mag. I'll add this to the database too, might be useful.

Regards,

libmar96

AAX
AAX's picture
C. Jacques image

Cristovao Jacques (Brazil) took an image in 2013 Aug. 14.095 UT and N Del was fainter than 11.2 , using Tycho-2 comps.

A crop animated gif, including another image taken in 2013 Aug. 17.089 UT, is available at this link: http://www.ceamig-rea.net/nova/nova.gif

The whole animated gif is at link (3 Mb)
http://www.ceamig-rea.net/nova/NOVA_NOCROP.gif

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