Affiliation
British Astronomical Association, Variable Star Section (BAA-VSS)
Thu, 02/05/2015 - 11:36
I see the list and avatar's of people on-line has been replaced with a sponsorship logo for S&T. Is this to be permanent or will the list of on-line users return?
Gary
Hi Gary,
The avatar block of online users will not be back. One reason was, we needed to claim some real estate on the home page and elsewhere to display our corporate sponsors more prominently. I think you will notice a lot of subtle changes and new initiatives in the coming weeks and months now that Stella is fully in charge of matters. She has a lot of exciting ideas and a fearless determination to see them through.
Cheers,
Mike Simonsen (SXN)
AAVSO
[quote=SXN]
The avatar block of online users will not be back. One reason was, we needed to claim some real estate on the home page and elsewhere to display our corporate sponsors more prominently.
[/quote]
Oh thats sad, it was a neat feature, now replaced with the dull and obnoxious advertising? I am already overwhelmed by the ads crowding out my email in yahoo, google, etc. Can't we please keep AAVSO clean and to the point of its mission - observing, collaboration, our user community and science.
There are other better ways to get money than posting commercial advertising.
Thank you,
Mike LMK
Well, I guess that is it. CHANGE!!!!!!! I won't have to worry about changing my picture or even having one, since it didn't look like me anyhow. It was fun. Like my sister use to say. Go where the money is because Money talks. Actually, Now we know who gives lots and my 2 cents doesn't matter. Best Anna
Hi,
I also did appreciate all the time the pictures to see who is online.
I often looked who are they and what they do and where they come from.
I would also appreciate having this feature back and putting the logos of sponsors e.g. below the small images.
Josch
That's a shame, it was kind of nice to know who in the Variable star community was on-line.
Also to put a face along side those observations on whose stars we share..
Douglas.
I liked it too because it gave a nice feeling of community ("hey, I'm not the only weirdo into this stuff!"). Couldn’t the block be made a fixed size, say two rows, and then have a pager to allow for large numbers of visitors?
Other possibilities:
Could we get everyone to use a retina display so they can fit more on the screen without having to scroll? What about a splash screen with the corporate ads on it that you have to look at for, say, 10 seconds before you are allowed onto the main page at aavso.org? What about watermarking light curves and star charts with corporate ads, or even data downloads? Could AAVSO staff wear corporate ads on their clothing and/or tattooed on their bodies during the association’s bi-annual meetings? What about selling naming rights to the association, viz: "The Budweiser SBIG American Association of Variable Star Observers"
I’m sure I can come up with more ideas like these if anyone wants them. :)
I'll miss it. I liked seeing who was on line. :-(
Couldn't we get an "opt-out" option?
Lew (COO)
I can't comment on whether the "avatars" and sponsor logos must be mutually exclusive, but we need the funding, and to get it from corporate sponsors we have to give them value in return, i.e. prominent placement.
Our dues, including "sustaining dues" for those who voluntarily contribute those, pay just a tiny fraction of yearly costs of the AAVSO.
Gary Billings
Thank you all for your feedback on this issue.
We moved the sponsor acknowledgements from the bottom of the page to a more visible location in order to make the idea of sponsorship more appealing to organizations who already deliver services to our users. Many nonprofits like ours use this avenue as an extra source of support.
We have placed the "Who's Online" information in an alternate location so that you can continue to get the benefits from it that you mention above. You can find it here or by using the "Community" tab at the top of the homepage. It is the first item listed. (Please note that Will is currently working to force the block to appear above the footer information.)
One of the AAVSO's many strengths is its wonderful sense of community. We want to continue to support that in any way we can!
Best wishes and clear skies,
Rebecca
i.e. putting the "who's online" on its own page,
Gary Billings
[quote=RebeccaTurner]
We have placed the "Who's Online" information in an alternate location so that you can continue to get the benefits from it that you mention above. You can find it here or by using the "Community" tab at the top of the homepage. It is the first item listed. (Please note that Will is currently working to force the block to appear above the footer information.)
[/quote]
Thanks Rebecca, I can see it via that link. However, it is not at all obvious how to get there (esp. if someone doesn't read this thread!) There is still an issue here, that the decision seems to have been made to put corporate sponsorship and advertising, above the desirable features that users like.
I am sure that I am not alone in feeling that advertising is just so rampant, ubiquitous, and obnoxious these days, can't we try to keep it down to a very bare minimum? We are a non-profit scientific organization, a community of enthusiasts, first and foremost. If the organization needs money, then lets look at good ways to do it, not resort to this "filth" of advertising!
Mike LMK
The "who's online" page is great. As is the new "Staff" page. Everyone on Staff have been busy. However, I do feel that seeing advertising on a vast majority of the website's web pages (over 75%) with available space in the right hand column is a bit too much. Yes, we do need more than one sponsor page, but I feel the number of advertising pages should be limited to five or less.
Kevin Paxson - PKV
I had not read Rebecca's post before I made my suggestion. I just clicked the link under 'community'. It works for me.
I just want to echo the comments of those who believe that observer information can be made secure while fostering easier communication among variable star enthusiasts in a given reason. Bruce McMath may be the closest aavso observer to me here in Arkansas. I think I found his name in one of the Newsletters. We've been in contact recently, and we are planning to include variable star observing as part of the program of an upcoming astronomy club meeting in our state. I'm glad to see others feel the same way. I wonder if anyone wants to weigh in on the other side of the question?
Chris
As one who has been victim of security hacks at Home Depot, _AAVSO_, and now Anthem, I will state without reservation that the AAVSO had better not reveal one iota of information about me under any circumstances - period. Those advocating even a minimum opening of membership information to public access are selfish, at best.
Brian D. Warner
[quote=WAB]
the AAVSO had better not reveal one iota of information about me under any circumstances - period. Those advocating even a minimum opening of membership information to public access are selfish, at best.
[/quote]
The member/observer directory should not be open to the public, only to registered users. No data center can be 100% secure, that is unreasonable to expect. Hacking and breaches can and will happen anywhere.
I think a reasonable solution is to have an online directory available to anyone with an AAVSO observer code. That directory should have a query form to allow searching for others by name, code, or approximate geographic location. Then, a secure message can be sent to that other person, and they can choose to reply or not. No email address or physical address needs to be given, unless the person gives it out. In fact, I would suggest everyone get a PO Box or similar anonymous address to protect one's actual location, thats a good general strategy in any case.
How specific the geographical location should be, is a bit uncertain. I would suggest 5-digit zipcodes of a person's residence are sufficiently close, yet non-specific enough, that it would satisfy everyone's concerns, for locating observers nearby, as well as providing reasonable security.
Mike LMK
What you postulate Mike is exactly what should be done, except you give control over what goes into the directory to the member who is responsible for creating and maintaining the entry, if they choose to participate. Basically it is just the profile feature now available that is searchable by members only using the criteria you mentioned. The information you provide the AAVSO when you join need have no connection to the directory and hence its security is in no way altered by having a member directory.
Bruce McMath
Perhaps there could be a 'who's online' link. This would take up far less space, allowing room for sponsor logos.
Chris
I hesitate to bring this up again but all this interest in community reflected here begs the question: why don't we have an accessible membership roster that one can see alphabetically, observing code or by state? It is like this is some underground organization that no one wants to admit belonging to.
You don't have to present anyone's mailing address or email address. You can though, provide a means to contact via a link, as is done on the night sky network, without revealing an email address. I would love to know who my fellow members are in my and surounding states and be able to email them. It is hard to build a community in an anonymous membership.
So last time I will kick this dead mule unless someone else share the sentiment.
Bruce McMath
Bruce,
Mike Simonsen and I brought the idea of a membership or observer directory to the AAVSO for consideration a couple of years ago. It was turned down due to privacy concerns. The main weakness in the current AAVSO setup is that the AAVSO login or usernames are often different than an individuals' observer codes. As a result, one cannot easily use the AAVSO system for observer communication. A comprehensive observer or member directory has several concerns: privacy concerns, unwillingness to be listed, the listing of names or locations or even labeling of individuals as members, observers or patrons. Like you, I was amazed to find out I had an unknown AAVSO observer 10 miles from me after I made the AAVSO Member and Oberver Google maps several years ago. Due to privacy concerns, no labels were put on the Google Map "teardrops." Like you, I believe that an observer or member listing which includes a state, province or country listing, the observer or member name, town or city, AAVSO username and AAVSO observer code would greatly increase observer communication and a sense of community. No emails or addresses would be needed. Some vehicle is needed to get to "know" our neighbors and increase our sense of regional comradely. If one does not attend an AAVSO meeting, getting to know our fellow observers and members personally is nearly impossible. Some new solution is needed.
Kevin Paxson - PKV
Amen!
My frustration is that the only reason anyone gives for not having a member directory is privacy, yet technology has rendered this an obsolete concern. It is a false consideration because 1) what is disclosed, if a member is listed at all, can easily be a member's choice - if you feel the need to hide you can; and 2) you can facilitate contact via a link feature without revealing any personal information other than name, obs code and state or residence - the minimum required information, IF you chose to be listed. Where is the heart burn here?
There seems to be an institutional innertia that precludes re-assessing a dated policy that is not longer valid - if it ever was.
I agree with Kevin. Other organisations I belong to publish their membership lists.
It would be easy enough to include a section on the annual renewal form where people can opt in to such a database which is only accessible to members.
I live in New Zealand and there are not a lot of members down here. I would like to be able to contact other Variable Star Observers who observe the same stars I observe, but I can't because i have no email addresses.
Regards
Stephen [HSP]
Pukemaru Observatory
New Zealand
Either a subset of or a complete AAVSO directory could emailed to duly qualified AAVSO members and vetted observers. A subset of the directory could be generated for a given country or multi-state area at a bare minimum. With the observer name, minimal locality information, login or username and observer codes, the internal AAVSO email system could then be utilized. This process would be internal, private and secure within the domain of the AAVSO and not be susceptible to SPAM or privacy concerns common with lists or directories that are published online. But some will argue that privacy concerns reign supreme.
One of the biggest issues the AAVSO has is that it's members work in isolation and only interact in large part in the virtual domain. Our organization could be greatly strengthened by knowing our neighbors, developing friendships and working together collaboratively. It is easy to say "no," but I believe a potential solution is possible.
Kevin Paxson - PKV
Having a modest ad, with a link to a list of people online is OK with me (I tend to tune out ads anyway, since so many sites have them). The AAVSO needs the money, and clicking the link easy enough, and anyone poking around the site would find it soon enough. Seems a minor change to me, and I know I will get used to it very soon. (And a member directory is OK too.)
Hi All,
I accept commercial logos on webpages are a useful source of funding for AAVSO. I have no problem with that so long as the ads are relatively low key and not distracting. Absolutely avoid ads that flicker or otherwise try to draw the observer's eye. I find that sort of peripheral vision flicker very annoying. Cheers,
Mark
Hello all,
All great points! We want to build an active community and facilitate interactions and collaborations, while also respecting people’s wish for privacy and online “safety”. We would like to make a feature that serves all our members (not only our observers). It is a balancing act to be sure, and we would move forward with this process carefully.
Thank you for your comments and suggestions – we are listening! It is great to see this community in action!
Best wishes,
Stella.
Heh. As the person who came up with the original idea for the avatars on the home page, I clearly have a biased opinion. :) The goal of that section was to do exactly what other people mentioned - build a community. At the time, it was felt the web site did not have a community vibe. For communication, we only had the e-mail discussion list, which had degenerated into flame wars and trolling, and then annual meetings which few people can attend. I think the avatars served that purpose well, as seen here by the support for them.
However, things have changed. About a year after the new web page was launched, we added these forums which created its own community. The web site now has a number of places were people can communicate. The avatars on the home page no longer are crucial in that regard.
I personally still wish they were there. I think moving them to a subpage effectively banishes them. I am sure the visits on the community tab are a tiny fraction of the home page and building a community is a holistic/ passive thing - it's not something you can actively ask people to do. But I also agree that advertising is needed and support that initiative. So the question becomes, where to put it? I don't know the technical structure of the site anymore. But there was clearly no other low hanging fruit in terms of real estate on the home page. Any other spot would have required a fairly significant overhaul of the home page. That shouldn't be done lightly. If they had an offer of significant funds from a sponsor and decided to take it - all the more power to them. We don't need to micromanage every decision from staff/council. At some point, we have to trust them to manage the details. (Although questioning is always acceptable...).
Aaron
Perhaps this is overly simplistic, but how about putting the avatars where the ads used to be? (i.e. the bottom of the page)
[quote=Aaron Price]
But I also agree that advertising is needed and support that initiative. So the question becomes, where to put it?
[/quote]
Well, I don't agree that advertising is necessary. Other ways to earn money "behind the scenes", that do not detract from the quality and community aspects of the frontpage.
What's happening here seems a lot like what happened to "public television" in the age gone by. I remember in the old days, 60's, 70's public tv was truly free of advertising . They carried a great variety of quality programming, that actually educated people, rather than the banality of commercial tv.
Then, slowly the ads started to come... at first just a few seconds of a sponsor's logo, then later a short "thank you for support" was heard, then later a full sentence describing the product of the advertiser, then jingles and videos, and soon public tv became just another commercial tv.
Please, can't we stop this right here and now on the AAVSO, before the clubfoot of advertising gets permanently jammed in the door?
Thank you.
Mike LMK
Mike,
It seems there are 2 entirely seperate issues in this thread: one is the presence and/or need for ads on the AAVSO web site, while the other is exploring some form of secure membership directory.
I'll only comment on the membership directory: I think we have the technology to do this in a secure way, and people can be given the option to opt out.
Certainly, we can read a member's profile if we are already in contact with them, or if they are posting on the forum, and their profile can contain as much or as little information as they would like to reveal. For some, that would be nothing -- complete anonymity; for others, it might be full name, location, affiliations, etc...
The examples brought up earlier of trying to build a community of observers, members, or researchers seems a valid one to me. No specific information need be revealed unless the member elects to reveal it. A private message could go to them, via the AAVSO site (no e-mail address revealed), and they could ignore it, respond, or possibly block all further communication from the sender. My current case is that I'd like to share data with another observer via Vphot, and I know they are a member, but I don't know their observer code. Fortunately, I have their e-mail address, and can write and request the observer code and thus share my observations with them, which might be helpful or useful in their research project. I'm sure there are many other perfectly valid scenarios in which a directory search might lead to a new collaboration, better communication, or an enhancement of "community" at a number of different levels.
My 2 cents, and surely worth every cent!
Brad Vietje, VBPA
Newbury, VT
Hi All: I stumbled across the new who's online page. Liked it alot. it is under community. Just in case you have not been there yet. Best Anna